Bruce Skains

Duration: 51Mins 4Secs
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Interview with: Bruce Skains
Interviewed by:
Date: January 30, 1975
Archive Number: OH 167

Interviewer
0:00:00.0 Interview with Mr. Bruce Skains, January 30th, 1975. Well, Mr. Skains, I thought we’d begin by having you tell me what positions you’ve held in the city government over the years.

Bruce Skains
Well, I first went to work in April 1933 as a stenographer—they didn’t call them secretaries then; they called them stenographers—in the legal department.

Interviewer
Yeah?

Bruce Skains
I continued working in there. And, about 1937, the city attorney made me chief clerk of the legal department.

Interviewer
And how many years were you chief clerk?

Bruce Skains
I served in that capacity until December 31st, 1937.

Interviewer
And then what did you do?

Bruce Skains
I left the city employment to go to work as a court reporter in the 127th District Court. I worked for the county. Well, I really worked for the state. We were on the state payroll, same as the district judges.
Interviewer
Who was judge in that court?

Bruce Skains
I worked for Judge William M. Holland. Bill Holland, he was commonly known as.

Interviewer
He was judge for years and years, wasn’t he?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
He was judge for years?

Bruce Skains
0:02:39.4 Oh yes, but I quit. I didn’t—I quit. In April 1947, I went to work for Brown and Root out on Guam. I worked out on Guam for Brown and Root as a field auditor. That is checking payrolls. We did them pads and payrolls and what not. Brown and Root rehabilitated Guam. See, Guam was first destroyed by the Japs—Japanese Army and Navy. Then we came along. When we took Guam from Japan, we destroyed it a little more. (both laughing) So it was really beat up—bombed from every direction. George Brown got the contract.

Interviewer
From the federal government?

Bruce Skains
From the federal government, to rehabilitate Guam. So, I worked out there 1947 through the latter part of 1955, coming home each year with a 30-day leave with full travel time and full pay.

Interviewer
Did you ever work for the city or the county government again after you worked for Brown and Root?

 

Bruce Skains
Oh yes, yes.

Interviewer
When did you resume?

Bruce Skains
I came back from Guam in the latter part of 1955. Mayor Holcombe, who had just been re-elected—not re-elected, he had been elected a number of times before, but he had been out but he got back in. He had appointed George D. Neil as city attorney. Well, George was an old friend of mine from the state attorney’s office in 1933. So he immediately wanted me to come to work as his chief clerk of the legal department.

Interviewer
Which is a job you held once before.

Bruce Skains
0:05:42.2 So I went to work—I asked him when he wanted me to start, and he said, “Right now.”

Interviewer
(laughs)

Bruce Skains
“You go take your coat off.” And I said, “I hadn’t thought about going to work right away, George.” He said, “Well, I want you to go to work because this department is in a mess. The files are stowed from all over the city and everything else. I want you to straighten it out.” So, I went to work. I worked as chief clerk of the legal department until October 1st, 1971, at which time I retired. And I have been retired since that time, not doing much of anything. Going hunting and fishing whenever I get a chance.

Interviewer
0:06:44.0 (laughing) Well, that’s a fine thing to do. What, Sir, were your duties as chief clerk of the legal department?

Bruce Skains
I supervised all the secretaries.

Interviewer
Did the legal department handle only records, or were you involved in cases?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
Did the legal department just handle records of litigation?

Bruce Skains
Not at all. They handled all the city legal business. Everything.

Interviewer
Did that include contracts?

Bruce Skains
They represented the mayor or the city in any kind of litigation whatsoever-anything. In other words, they were just a general counsel for the entire city. Of course, they were the city attorneys appointed by the mayor, and each subject more or less to the mayor’s direction.

Interviewer
Uh-hunh (affirmative).

Bruce Skains
0:08:05.3 At that time, yes—that’s right. Holcombe had just been elected again. He had beat out-- Who did he beat?

Interviewer
Was it Mayor Hofheinz?

 

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
Wasn’t there a—

Bruce Skains
No, he did a little later. He and Hofheinz had some kind of squabble about the results of the elections—he and Roy Hofheinz, not Fred Hofheinz.

Interviewer
Yes, I know that.

Bruce Skains
Fred Hofheinz’s father. Well, they finally agreed on letting the people vote on a charter amendment which would determine whether or not Holcombe or Hofheinz had won the election. Well anyway, it was submitted to the people. And the people voted for the charter amendment in favor of Holcombe, and Holcombe stayed in office.

Interviewer
I see.

Bruce Skains
0:09:12.6 I’ve forgotten how many terms he served, but all together Holcombe served 11 terms. Not successively, but intermittently. He served as mayor 22 years all together. He was a very young man when he was first elected.

Interviewer
Did you know him personally?

Bruce Skains
Oh yes—

 

Interviewer
(talking at once) What kind of person was he?

Bruce Skains
0:09:38.9 I did a lot of work for him. I did—a lot of times, whenever the city secretary was sick or on vacation, I took the city secretary’s place, and handled the council meetings. At that time Mrs. Margaret Westerman was city secretary. She served, as you know, as city secretary for 50 years. I suppose you know that.

Interviewer
Well, I have come across her name quite a few times.

Bruce Skains
She served for 50 years then retired. And shortly after she retired, she passed away. Poor old soul didn’t get to enjoy her retirement. As I said, I served as city secretary whenever when Mrs. Westerman was sick or on vacation. Then I worked there until the day Bill Holland was first assistant city attorney. He’d run for judge for the county court of law. When he was elected, he appointed me his court reporter. Later on, Judge Holland was elected—no he wasn’t elected, the 127th district judge retired. He was Kenneth McCullough(??). He retired and went to work for the state in Austin. Anyway, I went to the district court with him as court reporter—the 127th district court. I stayed there until I went out to Guam with Brown and Root. I quit, and went to Guam with Brown and Root, because I could make a whole lot more money out there on Guam. They were working a lot of overtime. I worked sometimes—we got time and a half on Saturday, and double time on Sundays. Some hours I would put in, counting the overtime and the double time, I put in as much as 120 hours.

Interviewer
(laughing) That’s quite a few!

Bruce Skains
We got paid by the hour.

 

Interviewer
Well now, Sir, you’ve known many of the most famous people in Houston history, in your capacity as chief clerk and as reporter. Would you care to tell us a little bit about the personalities of these people? What, for example, was Oscar Holcombe like?

Bruce Skains
0:12:48.5 Well, to be perfectly frank, I was never well-enough acquainted with people of any stature to be able to say anything personal about them one way or the other. Do you understand what I mean?

Interviewer
Well, perhaps you observed how they ran the government. For example, what went on at those council meetings when you were substituting as secretary?

Bruce Skains
Of course, I knew all the councilmen quite well. I can’t recall them over the years. One of them got cut out later. They remained in office pretty much a long time. Lee Mike Mamoor (??). He was a city councilman who quit and ran for the state senate. Got beat. I don’t know what Lee has been doing since then, except that I think he’s in the insurance business. I’m not sure. One of my very good friends in the city government, over the years until he passed away, or retired was—he was tax assessor and collector. I don’t know whether you know it or not, but previously this city had 4 audit men and they were at a ward.

Interviewer
Yeah?

Bruce Skains
A system of city government. They had some outstanding characters in there. What are now called city councilmen. There were 4 and the mayor, instead of the present number of 8 and the mayor. It was an automatic system of city government. I want to know if they could have—one of the city commissioners—they weren’t designated by city charter. They tacitly agreed amongst themselves. There were 4 major departments of a city government then. And a commissioner would head this department. Like Tom Starkey was quite an outstanding character. He was from up in east Texas. He was an old time contractor—building contractor. He was a pretty rough character. Plenty rough. I don’t know of my own knowledge, but I understood that he had killed 2 men in a fight. A gunfight up in east Texas. I don’t know the name of the town that he was from up there, but he was pretty tough in his own right. (both laughing) However, he was an excellent councilman. One of the very best they ever had. He was never swayed one way or the other by the influence of any kind or the other. He went along his own road and did what he thought was right. At that time Matt Terrence, former editor of the Houstonian, he was still alive. That used to give them commissioners a fit, and the councilmen later, too. If he didn’t think they were doing right, he went and printed it in the paper. And Matt was quite a character. I don’t know whether you know, his son is running a functioning weekly paper now, the Houstonian.

0:17:43.9 I didn’t know that.

Bruce Skains
Matt was—well, he really went after the city officials. If he thought one of them wasn’t doing right (laughing) he’d give him a fit in his little weekly newspaper. From time to time, policemen would give old Matt plenty a lot of trouble.

Interviewer
What kind of trouble?

Bruce Skains
Well, they would arrest him for the least little thing—things that they wouldn’t even pay any attention to if you or I did it—because he was always after the police department for the betterment of the police department and for the betterment of the city government. But the police, they didn’t take kindly to it. They were a little bit rougher than they are now.

Interviewer
Arresting people for no good reason, was that a common practice back in the—

Bruce Skains
No, no, no. I wouldn’t say that at all. It was just because this Matt Terrance, the editor of this little Houstonian newspaper—like I say, his son is putting it out now—it was because he would step on the toes of the police with the articles in his newspaper. They were always for the betterment of the city government. Matt never tried to blackmail anybody or anything else, like some of those little old weekly newspapers have done in the past. A number of years ago, I forget the name of the newspaper, but I think a fellow named Panus (??) –he’s dead now—but many years ago he ran this little newspaper, but he was just the opposite of Matt. He would blackmail people more or less—city officials—to keep from writing them up. I don’t know whether he’s still alive or not, but I hope he’s not, because that’s exactly what he did. There is no question about it in my mind. If he wanted something done by the city council—if he was mad at somebody or something like that—if they didn’t do just what he wanted, he’d come by there and give them a fit in his little old weekly newspaper. I can’t think of the name of that darn paper to save my life. It’s been so many years ago, I can’t think of it.

Interviewer
0:20:57.4 Did he simply print lies about them, or did he actually blackmail them?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
Did he print lies, slander about them in his newspaper?

Bruce Skains
Just innuendos.

Interviewer
I see. So he didn’t actually have the goods on them.

Bruce Skains
No, he was very, very careful about libel suits. He never came out and published anything that would have made them bring a libel suit on. It was just, like I say, innuendos. I’m almost certain his name was Panus.

Interviewer
And this was when? When was he doing this?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
What year was he doing this? Or, approximately what year?

Bruce Skains
I would say in the early 30’s. Yes, I’m sure it was in the early 30’s. I think he too has passed away.

Interviewer
0:22:18.7 Well, I have been meaning to ask you--

Bruce Skains
I think that Mayor Holcombe was the best mayor that Houston has ever had. I think that he did more for the city of Houston than any one other man. I’m very much a Holcombe fan, but I’m sure that a grand majority of people would agree with me that Mayor Oscar Holcombe really put Houston on the map. That he was greatly responsible for the growth of Houston, which has been—not many cities have grown as fast as Houston. I doubt if any have.

Interviewer
Specifically, what were some of the good things that he did?

Bruce Skains
Well now, you see that’s awfully hard to say. He did so many things that it’s just hard to say.

Interviewer
But he always encouraged business. Is that one?

Bruce Skains
Oh yes, yes. Undoubtedly. They always had—the Holcombe-eers and anti Holcombe-eers. A lot of people would come out and accuse him of everything except stealing the city hall. And in spite of all of that, he would be re-elected.

Interviewer
How was he able to maintain his popularity? How was he able to be re-elected so many times?

Bruce Skains
It was his personality. He had a wonderful personality. He was quite an orator, too. He could talk convincingly. But he was—as I say—he was a good mayor, every which way. They had people against him lots of times. Like I say, they accused him of everything except stealing the city hall. But he always managed to be re-elected one way or another. But, it’s just so many things that he did. It’s just hard to single out specific instances. Like I say, I think he really was responsible for putting the city of Houston on the map. For giving it national publicity. He was, I think, a couple of times the head of that—what do you call that mayors’ association? The mayors’ association all over the United States? I can’t think of the name of it.

Interviewer
I can’t either.

Bruce Skains
He was the president of the mayors’ association 2 or 3 different times.

Interviewer
0:25:55.4 So he was an influential man not only in Houston, but all over the United States.

Bruce Skains
Oh yes, yes. He was well-known. Well-known by his activity in the mayors’ association. Nice little mayors’ association. Like I say, I think he was the president 2—at least 2—maybe 3 different times.

Interviewer
Did he know many national politicians?

Bruce Skains
0:26:27.9 Well, I’m sure he did. I’m sure he did, but to say which one particularly—I know that—let’s see now. Roosevelt beat who? Holcombe was very active in President Roosevelt’s election. Like all politics, when Roosevelt was elected he favored the city of Houston with a bunch of things—nothing wrong, just things that could be done, perfectly legal. But they were really favors to Holcombe for his outstanding efforts on behalf of Roosevelt.

Interviewer
So, Oscar Holcombe was able to get these good things for Houston by knowing people in Austin and knowing people in Washington.

Bruce Skains
Oh yes, yes. He was well-known, no doubt about that. He was plenty well-known. Like I say, the anti-Holcombe people always came out and accused him of a little bit of everything, but he managed to be elected. They were super close races, but he was mayor 11 different times, 22 years. Mayor Louie Welch, he was sponsoring his succession. Now, Mayor Welch held the office more times in succession than any other mayor. Holcombe was, of course, on and off for 11 terms. He was mayor 22 years.

Interviewer
0:29:00.1 You mentioned to me that President Roosevelt was good to the city of Houston. It’s also true that Lyndon Johnson was very good to the city of Houston.

Bruce Skains
Oh yes, yes.

Interviewer
Did he know these politicians, like Oscar Holcombe back in the Roosevelt days?

Bruce Skains
I don’t think so. Lyndon Johnson, before he got into politics, was a schoolteacher. I don’t know just where, but somewhere, I think, in east Texas. Of course, he got to be president through the assassination of President Kennedy. He was a good president, in my opinion. Lyndon Johnson was a very good president.

Interviewer
But how did he come to favor the city of Houston so much? That’s what I’m curious about.

Bruce Skains
Who, Lyndon?

Interviewer
Yes.

Bruce Skains
Well I didn’t say he did. I said Roosevelt. I don’t say that Lyndon Johnson favored Houston at all. I never did know Johnson personally, but I thought he was a good president. I felt he was an excellent president. I was disappointed when he didn’t run again.

Interviewer
Let’s talk about your career as a court reporter now. Let’s go out of the legal department, and over to the court. What sort of—did you work with criminal cases or with civil cases in the—

Bruce Skains
0:31:08.1 I had nothing to do with the cases at all.

Interviewer
What was your duty?

Bruce Skains
Overseeing all the secretaries and clerks. Supervising the clerks and secretaries, and taking care of the law library. I knew law books very, very well. I handled the library—ordered the new books, replaced the old ones, all that sort of stuff.

Interviewer
But now, let’s go back to 1933 when you were a stenographer, just starting out. When you were a stenographer didn’t you have first-hand experience with cases that came before the court?

Bruce Skains
Well, only in that I helped the city attorneys and the assistant city attorneys prepare the cases for trial. I had nothing to do with the trial at all, but I helped them prepare the cases for trial. Like going out and investigating claims, and all that sort of stuff. Checking up on claims against the city. I would go out, interview witnesses—of course, being a shorthand writer, I could take down witness statements without any trouble.

Interviewer
So these were civil cases, and not criminal cases.

Bruce Skains
Oh no. It had nothing to do with criminal cases at all. They had criminal investigators that investigated the criminal cases. I had nothing to do with criminal cases at all.

Interviewer
Why would people bring suit against the city?

Bruce Skains
0:32:58.0 Oh, the reasons are innumerable. They run an old car, and a chuck hole broke an axle—everything under the sun. You can’t imagine how many claims would be filed against the city. Of course, not all of them were paid, but they had to be investigated to see whether they were phony claims or valid claims. They have 2 city detectives now as claims investigators. They investigate all sorts of claims. They’re policemen, generally sergeants.

Interviewer
Now, when you were—

Bruce Skains
The one in charge of the city department now handling the investigational claims would be a policeman by the name of Chutea(??) His office is in the basement of the old City Hall, not the annex but the old City Hall. He has his office there, and has an assistant city attorney working with him and a secretary. They handle all sorts of claims against the city. They investigate, check up, see whether the claim is valid and should be paid. They make a recommendation to the city attorney’s office. Of course, the city attorney’s office doesn’t have to file it, but they usually do. They usually file it. They investigate his report as to whether the claim is valid or unfounded, or what not. You understand what I mean, right?

Interviewer
Uh-hunh (affirmative).

 

Bruce Skains
They have an office in the basement of the old City Hall. Sergeant Chutea’s (??)office is there, and he has an assistant city attorney, Heffernan(??), and they have a secretary. There’s 3 of them up in that office there.

Interviewer
For a number of years you worked for Brown and Root, right?

Bruce Skains
I worked on Guam.

Interviewer
In Guam. But now—

Bruce Skains
0:35:37.4 About 8 years. I came home every year. My wife and 2 children stayed in San Francisco—that is Oakland. I have a married daughter living in Oakland. My wife and son stayed with them, and my son went to school there. In Oakland, California.

Interviewer
Did the—

Bruce Skains
I would come home every year for a 30-day vacation with full pay. We would get in the car and take a trip all around. You know—Florida, here, yonder, every which way. Until about 30 days was up and I’d go back to Guam.

Interviewer
Did the firm of Brown and Root grow a great deal during this period?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
Did Brown and Root expand—grow larger—during this period of the 1940’s?

Bruce Skains
Yes, I think so. You see, they were very, very active in the President’s campaign.

Interviewer
President Truman?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
President Truman now? President Truman. His campaign or President Roosevelt’s?

Bruce Skains
No, Roosevelt. I won’t say I was right, but they were very, very active in the campaign. You know how politics are. They were rewarded, I suppose, with the job on Guam. They would really put Brown and Root on the map, because it was on a cost plus basis. They couldn’t lose. The more they spent, the more Brown and Root made.

Interviewer
Would you explain—

Bruce Skains
(talking at once) I’m not saying that they spent money unnecessarily, but they were very liberal about spending money. That’s for sure. They naturally would be because they got a certain percentage. I think the percentage, after you spent so much money, was small. But they made plenty of money off of it. They put Brown and Root on the map.

Interviewer
Were city contracts given out on a cost plus basis like that?

Bruce Skains
No, never.

Interviewer
How were they given out?

Bruce Skains
Bids. Supposed to be according to the most secure and highest bidder.

Interviewer
Were they?

Bruce Skains
0:38:35.4 They didn’t necessarily have to be the best. When I was there, generally yes. They were awarded to the successful high bidder, unless something could be shown that they wouldn’t be able to do the contract. But, generally speaking, city contracts were awarded to the highest bidder.

Interviewer
Now, Brown and Root received many local contracts, didn’t they?

Bruce Skains
Not much local, not too much local. They had quite a bit of street paving, but that’s about all. They made their money on Guam. They didn’t need no city contract. (laughing) I think they—like I say, I think that Brown and Root contract really put Brown and Root on the map, so far as finances are concerned.

Interviewer
Do you know of any other big Houston contracting firms that received grants from the Federal Government?

Bruce Skains
No, I don’t. I sure don’t. Of course, I wasn’t here and I wouldn’t know if they did. I was on Guam, and I wouldn’t know anything about the functions of the city government at that time. See, I was out there between 8 and 9 years.

 

Interviewer
When you came back from Guam in 1955, the city of Houston had state civil service which is something that they hadn’t had before the war. Did you notice any effect of state civil service on the local government?

Bruce Skains
0:40:37.2 I don’t say it was too noticeable, but I think it was an excellent thing. It gave the city employees job security, which they had never had before civil service. In other words, a new mayor could fire out all the appointed people and put in his own people. Along come the civil service, and it gave the city employees job security. It made a whole lot higher-class group of people—or get people to take jobs there that they wouldn’t have before, because they would have job security under civil service. See, it was necessary to be prove him guilty before civil service commission of some offense or doing something that he shouldn’t do in order to fire him. So, the city civil service really upgraded the city employees a great deal. A great deal. You can understand why—because it gave them job security.

Interviewer
Was it a common practice to throw everybody out of office—

Bruce Skains
Oh no, not everybody.

Interviewer
--when a new mayor came in?

Bruce Skains
Because a lot of them would be supporting the guy that was elected. They would stay, and just the ones that got out and took active—you know—campaigned strongly for the mayor that was elected and against the mayor that was defeated. They didn’t sweep out everybody. No. Oh no, never. Because usually half of the city employees, maybe more than that, would have supported the man who was elected. But they did fire lots of them that took active part. So, the civil service eliminated all of that. It gave them job security, and upgraded the city employees a whole lot.

Interviewer
Were you personally protected under the civil service program? Your job?

Bruce Skains
0:43:16.5 Yes. When my job was created, the then city attorney made a special exception. He designated me as chief legal clerk. See, the clerks of the departments are not under civil service and are subject to being let out when a new mayor comes in. Well, the city attorney then got around everybody and designated me as chief legal clerk. And my job was under civil service. I couldn’t be thrown out, which I didn’t. I stayed there then, until I retired.

Interviewer
You mentioned that one of the reasons you went to Guam was because the pay was so much better.

Bruce Skains
Oh, yes.

Interviewer
Does that mean that the salaries of city employees have always been low in Houston?

Bruce Skains
Well, I wouldn’t say they’ve ever been very high. They’re higher now than they ever have been.

Interviewer
How are they, compared to other cities—like, say Dallas.

Bruce Skains
Well now, that I don’t know. I don’t know. But I think the city employee salaries compare favorably with other cities in Texas. I don’t think they are lower. I think they just compare very favorably, with Dallas, Fort Worth, San Antonio—

Interviewer
0:45:06.2 Well, we’ve covered a lot of ground and talked about a lot of different things. Can you think of anything else you’d like to put down on tape that might be of value to future historians? Any other recollections or stories about people you’ve known or experiences you’ve had?

Bruce Skains
Well, I think after Holcombe, Louie Welch was an excellent mayor. I think Welch was excellent. There were a bunch of Welch fans. I think he was an excellent mayor, and I was sorry to see him get out. I don’t have anything against Hofheinz. I voted for Hofheinz against—what’s that councilor’s name, the one who ran against Hofheinz?

Interviewer
I know the one you’re talking about.

Bruce Skains
Anyway, I voted for Hofheinz. I didn’t like the councilman for some reason or other. Dick—you know who he is. I can’t think of his name.

Interviewer
Gottlieb?

Bruce Skains
Gottlieb, yes. Gottlieb. I never did like Gottlieb much, for no specific reason. No particular reason. I just didn’t like him. That’s why I voted for Hofheinz.

Interviewer
Fred Hofheinz scored a lot of political points off Herman Short who was the police chief. Did you know Herman Short?

Bruce Skains
Just casually. I didn’t know him personally. When B.W Paine (??) was chief I knew B.W. Paine(??) real close.

Interviewer
What kind of reputation did he have?

Bruce Skains
What?

Interviewer
What kind of reputation did Herman Short have?

Bruce Skains
Personally, I think he was an excellent police chief.

Interviewer
So, he had a good reputation at City Hall.

Bruce Skains
0:47:28.0 Oh yes, yes. No doubt about it. Herman Short was a good police officer. There’s no doubt in my mind, he was a very good police officer. Something’s coming back—an inspector police, he was one of the best police officers they ever had. He never was chief because he didn’t want it. William Burton. Bill Burton. He was an inspector. He was one of the best police officers they ever had.

Interviewer
Why didn’t he want to become chief?

Bruce Skains
On account of job security. He was subject to being removed by a new mayor. He probably would be. Mayor usually appoints a new chief.

Interviewer
Why?

Bruce Skains
That’s what I don’t know. Politics, I guess. Because the chief doesn’t support him, or he doesn’t like him personally, 1000 reasons. I don’t know. But I know that Herman Short was an excellent police officer in my opinion. They didn’t come any better. It’s just like—if you were put in a job over a lot of people, you would want to be sure that your head men—heads of departments—were loyal to you. I’m sure you would, if you were in a position where you had people working under you, want the head ones to be people that you trusted.

Interviewer
So, loyalty is a very important thing in city government.

Bruce Skains
Oh yes, yes. I would say, yes. But I don’t know a thing against Short. I think Short was an excellent police chief, from every angle. The one police chief police that I say I was very, very close to—he’s passed away now—a friend that I was well-acquainted with was Paine. B.W Paine. He was chief of police several turns. I don’t know how many, but several. I believe it’s summertime out here in January. (laughing.)

Interviewer
It is warm today. Is there anyone else that you’d like to single out for praise or blame?

Bruce Skains
I’m not much on blaming people. If I can’t say something good about a person, I don’t say anything.

Interviewer
Well—that’s a good attitude.

Bruce Skains
(laughs)

Interviewer
Well, on behalf of the Houston Metropolitan Archives, I’d like to thank you for your time, and I’m sure your contribution will be very valuable.

Bruce Skains
Glad to help you out as much as I can.

0:51:01.6 (end of audio)